Friday, March 30, 2007

The Butcher's Bill

In 2005, the last year for which a complete FBI Uniform Crime Report is available, there were 14,860 homicides committed in the United States.

10,100 were committed with firearms.

If you isolate the 7,543 handgun murders from the 2,557 murdered with a different kind of gun, you still are left with one weapon of choice that outpaced knives, blunt objects, personal weapons (Using the body to hit, push, etc), poison, explosives, fire, narcotics, explosives, asphyxiation, strangle, or "other", which encompasses, automobiles, etc.

Spin that to make it sound like more guns on the streets are a good idea.

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

Medical Errors - A Leading Cause of Death

The JOURNAL of the AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION (JAMA) Vol 284, No 4, July 26th 2000 article written by Dr Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH, of the Johns Hopkins School of Hygiene and Public Health, shows that medical errors may be the third leading cause of death in the United States.

The report apparently shows there are 2,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery; 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals; 20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals; 80,000 deaths/year from infections in hospitals; 106,000 deaths/year from non-error, adverse effects of medications - these total up to 225,000 deaths per year in the US from iatrogenic causes which ranks these deaths as the # 3 killer. Iatrogenic is a term used when a patient dies as a direct result of treatments by a physician, whether it is from misdiagnosis of the ailment or from adverse drug reactions used to treat the illness. (drug reactions are the most common cause).

Ahem, and you're afraid of the guns. You best watch out for Drs and Nurses. Go figure. Put the emPHAsis on the right sylLABle! Oh yeah, and get a gun or two.

Mack said...

Look! Anonymouse is holding something bright and shiny up for us to see!

Anonymous said...

(bright and shiny up for us to see! )

It's obviously not your intellect. Why rail about 7000 handgun deaths when the medical "profession" has killed a 1/4 million per year. Of course, that did reduce the carbon footprint. You libs just don't get it. I recommend you take a walk down Park - east of Airways around 10 at night.

Freedonian said...

Anon, that's the stupidest f'n argument I've ever read in my life. And if you'd seen some of the sheer drivel I've seen, you would grasp just how pathetic that is.

Practicing medicine is educated guesswork. Misdiagnoses happen. It's not like the name of a disease magically appears on the ass of all who suffer from it.

And yes, mistakes happen. Human error is a factor in anything.

But unlikes a doctor or nurse, a gun is functioning exactly as it was intended when it kills someone. That's the true flaw of your argument; In your incredibly stupid comparison, something has to work wrong to produce fatal results.

Not so much with a gun. If some asshole walks into his workplace and sprays the place with bullets, the gun is functioning properly.

Freedonian said...

PS: How high does the body count have to get before you let go of the stupid talking points?

Anonymous said...

250,000 to 7,000 - The margin is over 35 to 1. How many deaths at the hand of the Medical "professionals" do we have to have before you focus on that? I've heard you rail about the 3,000 deaths in Iraq, now you've moved to the 7,000 handgun deaths, but you can't see the forest for the saplings.

To put this into better perspective, the medical community has completely wiped out 25 cities the size of Millington each year. All the while, you are upset over a much smaller number of deaths that would have occured regardless of handguns. Take away the guns and the thugs will use bats, tire irons, knives, forks, and spoons. THEY are the criminals, not the gun.

Death is death to the dead, regardless if it came from a bullet or a scapel. If you want to rant, try ranting on the medical killers.

Freedonian said...

Ah, I knew if you rambled long enough, you'd eventually get to the second weakest NRA talking point ever, and the easiest one to dissect:

Take away the guns and the thugs will use bats, tire irons, knives, forks, and spoons. THEY are the criminals, not the gun.

Think this guy would have been able to kill two policemen with a baseball bat?

If the guys in this story were trying to kill one another with a tire iron, would they have missed badly enough to kill an innocent 14-year-old?

Was this guy firing a gun into a daycare center, or a spoon???

What would the body count have been if the two pansies at Columbine were trying to kill the big jocks with knives and forks? Two, I suspect--- Dylan Kliebold and Eric Harris.

The medical argument is still just as foolish as it was when you posted it.

First of all, read your own source article. 106,000 of those deaths were "non-error, adverse effects of medications". Unfortunately, some drug allergies are found the hard way. I had one that was found the hard way when I was a kid. It didn't kill me, but there's now a notation in my file not to give me that one again.

That leaves us with 119,000 deaths per year. 20,000 from misdiagnosis, which can happen easily enough. Diagnosis is educated guesswork; The only unrealistic medical principle of "House" is that they always figure out what it is in time to save the patient. Real disease can be tricky.

80,000 from infections? What, are you going to complain about mother nature? Infection happens. With some of the mutations found in staph alone, we're seeing drug resistant forms pop up every day. Nothing can be done about that.

So when yo get down to it, 9,000 preventable deaths happen in hospitals (The article doesn't indicate the cause of the unnecessary surgery, but it's safe to assume misdiagnosis. For the sake of the argument, I'll be generous to you and chalk it up to greed).

How many people do you think go into the hospital every day? A damn sight more than 9000, I promise you. In other words--- less people than are killed in total gun homicides in any given year.

Again--- How high does the body count have to get before you quit spewing nonsense?

Anonymous said...

80,000 from infections that were contracted by visiting a hospital. That's not just any old infection you pick up from not washing your hands.

I'm not even going to address your other "points" as they defy logic. With the exception of the one about taking away guns. You asked if thugs would have been able to kill two policemen with baseball bats. Yes, it could happen. But, how about killing hundreds with plane old farm type commodities - diesel fuel and fertilizer (Oklahoma City FBI building bombing). You just don't get it. If someone wants to kill you bad enough, they will make it happen. The methodology isn't the problem, the madness is.

Still you persist at myopia. Take a look from 35,000 feet and see what's happening if you are so engaged over wrongful deaths. My guess is that you are simply trying to show how much of a libber you are, damn the facts!

Freedonian said...

80,000 from infections that were contracted by visiting a hospital. That's not just any old infection you pick up from not washing your hands.

That shows a pretty big chunk of ignorance regarding not only medicine, but biology in general. No wonder right wingers want religion taught instead of science-- The only way the rest of us would believe their drivel is the complete abandonment of science classes in school.

First, there are any number of medical procedures that would cause a doctor to prescribe an immunosuppressant. Transplants, Crohn's, even rheumatoid arthritis.

Second, some patients walk in with no immune systems at all.
In addition to AIDS, there are quite a number of disorders that can retard the generation of white blood cells. Even old age can contribute to the decreased production of t-cells.

Third, any time you make a large cut on someone, then make others on the inner organs that are a little more difficult to watch over, there is the potential for an infection. There is no way around it.

Unlike the gun deaths you seem to think are okay and the three thousand soldiers killed in the Great WMD Snipe Hunt, there is nothing preventable about medical infection.

You asked if thugs would have been able to kill two policemen with baseball bats. Yes, it could happen.

Your talking point is so retarded that you can't even give an intelligent answer without changing the question. Would that guy be able to kill two armed policemen if he did not have a gun? He might have made contact with one of them if he was lucky.

But, how about killing hundreds with plane old farm type commodities - diesel fuel and fertilizer (Oklahoma City FBI building bombing).

You actually use an attack carried out by rightwing gun fanatic nutjobs to defend rightwing gun fanatic nutjobs?

That attack killed 168 people. Click the link in the original post and check out the number of Americans killed by explosives (Not counting the Great WMD Snipe Hunt, naturally). You'll find that the number is a whopping TWO.

So no, I'm not about illegalizing horse shit. If I illegalize horse shit, you'd go to jail for distributing at this point...

You just don't get it. If someone wants to kill you bad enough, they will make it happen. The methodology isn't the problem, the madness is.

No, YOU don't get it. If some guy gets fired from his job and walks back into the office with a knife, he's not going to get to do much damage before someone whacks him in the head with something and stops him.

If someone tries to attack someone else with a knife, an eighteen month old baby doesn't get her face blown off.

The methodology IS the madness. No other form of murder causes this kind of damage. Would there be more homicides with knives or blunt objects if guns were harder to come by? Probably so. Would it add up to the same? Not even close. There would be no bystanders killed. Someone going on a murder spree would have a much tougher time using a manual weapon to kill his victims instead of simply moving his finger ten times.

If we could guarantee to get them all, I would be in favor of melting down every gun in this country not held by military or law enforcement and making playground equipment out of the scrap metal. That's not very realistic, so I'll settle for reasonable gun control.